Hybrid or not?

[Lisachromis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_chromide

[Jeff George]

Something has happened in the last 15 or 20 years that is causing great confusion. Red Chromides are now being called "Orange Chromides" in many fish stores.

When I had the wild type of E. maculatus in the 90s, it was called the Orange Chromide. It was only really orange in breeding colors; the rest of the time, it was basically silvery-grey-green with black splotches and lots of rows of tiny orange dots. If you didn't know about the REAL Green Chromide (E. suratensis) - and most PetSmart fish department clerks don't - you'd be quite likely to think that the wild type of E. maculatus WAS the Green Chromide. But it's not - it's the Orange Chromide.

There was also a widely-available amelanistic or xanthic (not sure which term is the right one in this case) domestic variety of E. maculatus. In the literature prior to the 90s, and generally in the trade, this version of the fish - which has an orange base color all the time, not just when breeding - was called the RED Chromide. The Red Chromide is somewhat analogous to a Pink Convict - it's a popular domestic strain with a lot less black pigment than the original, wild type.

In recent years, though, it seems that the wild-type E. maculatus - the original Orange Chromide - has become very scarce in the hobby, replaced almost entirely in LFS by what we called the Red Chromide in the 90s. And since the Red Chromide is really more orange than red (Metriaclima estherae, anyone?), and the wild-type is hardly seen anymore, LFS are now labelling the domestic Red Chromide as the Orange Chromide.

Bottom line - if you have the old-school, wild-type Orange Chromide, you'd show it in the appropriate wild-type class. If you have the light-orange, domestic "Red Chromide", THAT fish would show as an Old World ornamental.

There is a place in the show for either variety E. maculatus, no matter what. And if you've seen both, you just can't confuse them. If you're not sure, most any cichlidiot whose been around a few years can help you figure out which one you've got.

[Chromedome]

Let me muddy this up for you a bit more re: "Red" Chromides. Back in the late 60s/early 70s we had a xanthic morph of Etroplus maculatus. This was marketed as the Gold Chromide. It lacked any of the dark pigments of the standard Orange Chromide. I played around with crossing the sports with standard, found out that the xanthic gene was partially dominant (long story).

In the early 80s, someone introduced a strain of what was basically the Gold Chromide, but with intense red-orange pigment over the gold. I never had an opportunity to play with these for the genetics. Anyway, these were marketed as the Red Chromide. They were more than just a xanthic morph, much the way a super red Severum is. The color was also enhanced somewhat with either special diets or hormone treatment. Hobbyist bred specimens, while still darker orange than the Gold, were not the intense red-orange of the imported fish. In the late 90s was when I first found some of these fish labeled as "Orange" Chromides, and though I did explain the difference to the shop owner, there was no way anyone was going to stop it.

I have occasionally seen simple Gold form specimens being sold as Orange. Both these and the Reds are aquarium bred forms, and would go in the special classes when shown.

[Jeff George]

Err, thanks, Darrell, I think...

It's apparently even more complicated than I thought. Oh well. Let me just say this - the original, wild-type Orange Chromide is a swell fish, and if I get a chance to get them again, I'm going to snap them up. It's sad that they've been displaced in the trade by the "flashier" domestic strains. The gold and "red" version...meh...to each his own. But then, I still think that the only true male Red zebra should be powder blue...

[Chromedome]

One of our frequent contributors here, Notho2000, has a breeding group of normal Etroplus maculatus. Look at the threads in "Other Cichlids and Dithers" section of the forum! Last one is here, http://www.cichlid.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18818 , shows a tankful of young. Unfortunately Jim is in Canada, and getting stuff across that border has become more difficult in recent years. But I'm sure it can be done, if you reeeeallly want them bad enough!

[Jeff George]

Thanks for the tip. When the weather warms up and school eases up a bit (I'm a second grade teacher and a grad student at once, and a dad to boot), I'll start hunting for my old faves.

[6bar]

Thank u gentlemen for your kindly responses. I have contacted notho and he concurs that these fish belong in the ornamental category.

[dstuer1950]

Wouldn't the line bred (for example the solid red or gold ones) be considered ornamental? and the normal "wild" color be considered Old World?