LFS promo

[fishmaven]

You know how car dealers,

oil and lube places and even gas stations run promos to get you to visit their facility, normally

for a free oil change or something. What would it take as a promo to get you to visit or revisit a

LFS? A discount? Buy 1 get 1? What?

Do any give you a discount for ACA membership?

Are you on a mailing list from any at this time? An e-mail list? If so, do they send you

anything about new arrivals?

Some stores and chains offer a fish club membership giving

discounts on selected fish each month and even freebies. Do you belong to any? Do they track your

purchases? Dan

[Patrick Kelly]

Several of the stores

in my area give discounts on fish for any club card. ACA or local. All are fish only ranging from

10 - 15%.

One of the larger stores sends out emails on weekly specials on anyone that

registers.

One new store in the area, Scales Tropical fish Warehouse, is owned by two

of our local club members. Members first, then store owners.
They regularly donate to the

club and put the specials and new arrivals on our club forum.

I also get regular post

cards and catalogs from That Fish Place. I registered for a mailing list one of the times I was

there.

The 3 larger stores around the Baltimore beltway have ads in the local paper each

Sunday. Don't know if that really pays. Expensive and mostly junk ads.

[fishmaven]

<div

class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Several of the stores in my

area give discounts on fish for any club card. ACA or local. All are fish only ranging from 10 -

15%.</div>
Margins are higher on fish, giving them the option

of discounts without significant loss.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div

class='quotemain'>The 3 larger stores around the Baltimore beltway have ads in the

local paper each Sunday. Don't know if that really pays. Expensive and mostly junk ads.<!--

QuoteEnd--></div>
It pays or they'd discontinue doing it. Also, if one

store were to stop their ad, the other two would pick-up that store's business from the ads.

The repetitive visibility of the store's name makes them the first choice of the casual

shopper. A hobbyist would just visit their favorites regularly and only occassionally visit the

others depending on specials. Dan

[Led]

I just like the LFS that keeps

an awesome bunch of healthy and somewhat unusual or rare fish. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Hard to find in Iowa though. Myself and my

friends normally have better stuff than any LFS that I have been in.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3587:date=Jan 13 2007, 09:18 AM:name=Led)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Led @ Jan

13 2007, 09:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I just like the LFS that keeps an awesome bunch of

healthy and somewhat unusual or rare fish. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif Hard to find in Iowa though. Myself and my

friends normally have better stuff than any LFS that I have been in.</div><!--

QuoteEEnd-->

Remember, the store needs to pay rent EACH month, not just the months that

an occassional visit by you and your friends occurs. <grin> A store in business today needs

to compete with the big box stores and here price is the key. Few, even of the members that

frequent this Forum, are willing to pay more for a product just to support the store that extends

itself to extra effort.

I recall friends comments before I worked, owned, or managed

stores that mentioned LFSs seldom stocked the products they wanted in the quantities they wanted.

This from someone that wanted to buy 1 liter sized Tetra products in 6 lots at one time rather than

buying a single as they needed it. These friends never made the effort to create a working

relationship with any of the stores, they expected what they wanted and were disappointed that no

one was willing to provide their wishes. I'd suggest trying to cultivate a relationship with a

single store of your choosing. Make them aware of what you'd like and ask to be called if

something you want is available, is coming, or has arrived in the store. Another suggestion, if

you're thinking of adding a new tank tell them the size parameters and mention that you're

aware that sales DO occur. " When you can offer a really good deal on MY selection, I'd

appreciate a call or e-mail." This should get some attention.

As for fish, as a

store owner or manager, I was willing to pay more for a fish I could sell immediately rather than

feeding and medicating a weakling I rx'd at a cheaper price. This, IMO, justified a higher

price. Dan

[Tim]

I think a store that has clean

tanks, a good selection of fish and is customer orientated is one that will do good business.
Last week I visited a couple stores that had labels on the tanks like "Hybrid Cichlid".

"Spotted Madagascar Cichlid", etc. There wasn't a scientific name in the entire

place. I was also told that the stores in question hated Aquaria Societies and Clubs. I've

often bought from a couple of the local shops and paid a couple dollars more for stuff just to

support the shops. But for those shops who would rather their clients stay ignorant and don't

have time to keep tanks clean, etc, there's no promotions or specials they can run to get me

into their stores or to purchase fish from them.
I don't look down on shops for selling

fish like Jelly Bean Parrots, and other fish that earn them money and pay the bills. I understand

there's a market out there and they need to pay the rent. But that doesn't mean a store

should be marking up fish 400 percent, getting mad at you if you let them know a fish is mislabled

and treating you like a leper if they find out you belong to a fish club. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
That's my two cents.
Tim

[Led]

Well, we do have two decent LFS

in my area. One FW and the other Salt. I moved here recently. We didn't have any where I

previously lived. They all stunk. And, one of the owners of one LFS does support one of the clubs

I am in. He will donate plants and fish to MCA Auctions and such in the past. He does have decent

fish too and will actually buy fish from his patrons. I guess I think back to the LFS stores where

I previously lived.....years in purgatory are hard to shake. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
But, some stores do hate any fish

clubs. They won't let you post club info or anything.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3593:date=Jan 13 2007, 05:47 PM:name=Tim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tim @ Jan

13 2007, 05:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3593"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>... that doesn't mean a store should be

marking up fish 400 percent, getting mad at you if you let them know a fish is mislabled and

treating you like a leper if they find out you belong to a fish club.</div><!--

QuoteEEnd-->
The cost of a fish isn't just the price paid for each fish. If you received a

box of _______ (any type fish you want to plug in here) there are going to be some that are premium

and some mediocre and some needing help. Some stores mark these fish with one price. Pick one too

low and the best fish go out first at the too low price. Price it too high and no one wants to buy

them. I've tried both ways. I recovered more money by pricing the fish at the higher tier. As

the premium fish are selected the price can be lowered to entice "bargain shoppers" to

purchase the selection.

Re correcting a store's labels: Criticism is hard to take.

The manner of the critique has to be just right. Here's one that might work..." I was

looking for info on that fish and found this reference. (show the reference, hopefully a photo

reference, using a book from the store's shelf) Do you think THIS could be THAT fish?"

I used to get members of a local SW club in the last shop I ran. Practically all came in

with a chip pre-wired for attitude. They expected the very best fish at the very lowest price. As

I've pointed out in this post, that logic doesn't work for me. If you want the best price

you don't get to "cherry pick." We're not talking about a can of soup at the

grocery store where the contents of the can are identical. If there's no difference in the

quality of the fish, why does the customer want that particular fish? I'm also not talking

about rejects. At one time I had a "quarantine area" in a storage room at the back of the

store. At some point, upon discovery of the existence the room, most, if not all of my regulars

would ask what I was keeping in the back for my "special" customers. Texas has a rather

simple (although stupid, IMO) way to determine if a fish should be illegal, they simply use

California's list. Texas wildlife officers were regulars in my shop. I didn't want them in

my backroom or my office. I eliminated the tanks in the back and kept ALL fish visible in the

store. If a fish came in that required too much attention to make it saleable I usually gave it to

an employee or a customer. I didn't want to tie up a tank to house a single fish that

shouldn't be sold.

I try to be fair in these comments. Usually I can see both sides.

As a hobbyist living in San Diego in the seventies (before owning or managing a shop), I frequently

visited LA area shops with friends. The single, most aggravating thing I observed on these visits

is something no one here ever mentions. Store owners seem to pay adults more for fish than they do

kids. I don't like it. I'm pretty sure it still happens today. If fry are worth dollars

when buying from adults they shoud be worth more than quarters from kids. Dan

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3597:date=Jan 13 2007, 08:35 PM:name=Led)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Led @ Jan

13 2007, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3597"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>But, some stores do hate any fish clubs. They

won't let you post club info or anything.</div>
I'm not

trying to justify the way some store management treat fish clubs or their members. Poor decisions

are just that, poor decisions. You can give a book to someone, even read parts aloud, but it

doesn't mean the thoughts contained will be understood or implemented. Vote with your feet.

BUT, don't just leave. Tell the owner or the manager WHY you're choosing NOT to do business

with them first. If they make no effort to change the way you feel, then leave. At least you've

started a "conversation" that may eventually produce results . Dan

[bobrfish]

LFS and advanced hobbyists

are opposed to each other in many matters. The number one issue is economics or money.

Advanced hobbyists are laying out a large portion of income and thus need to minimize costs as

much as possible. 95% of the time, items will be cheaper than LFS and thus advanced hobbyists will

buy elsewhere.

LFS owners are between a rock and hard place with chain pet stores

squeezing them. Pet store owners and employees spend time educating buyers at no charge. That

time is not free to store owner though. That time has to be paid for via sales. Thus LFS has to

mark up items.

Imagine filling out a list, walk through front door of local store and

hand employee list. They fill order in five min and walk out. During five min, there are no tanks

to look at, no products to place hands on, just a small cubicle to wait in while order is filled.

I bet that LFS could charge less but no one would shop there due to cold atmosphere.

The

second issue is livestock. Advanced hobbyists want rare stock. LFS typically do not want to carry

rare livestock as turnover is not good. Turnover is where the money is in business so we are

really back to economics again.

IMO, LFS and advanced hobbyists will never be happy

together.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3618:date=Jan 15 2007, 02:47 PM:name=bobrfish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobrfish

@ Jan 15 2007, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Imagine filling out a list, walk through front

door of local store and hand employee list. They fill order in five min and walk out. During five

min, there are no tanks to look at, no products to place hands on, just a small cubicle to wait in

while order is filled. I bet that LFS could charge less but no one would shop there due to cold

atmosphere.

The second issue is livestock. Advanced hobbyists want rare stock.<!--

QuoteEnd--></div>

Surprisingly, that's the way some shops are run,

or at least close. Some are set up with the acrylic displays showing "show" cichlids and

relatively exotic other varieties. You place your order and return later to pick them up. I

wouldn't care to buy that way but...

I've also been to several wholesale

livestock or plant suppliers that didn't want people "wandering" their facility for

whatever reason and required you to place your order and wait for it to be filled. Again, not the

way I'd want to be treated.

Re rare stock: price and selection are dependent on

your buying level and purchasing point. It also depends on your relationship to your supplier.

Sporadic purchases from distant farms or wholesalers don't garner the best price or selection.

Purchasing from the same suppliers regularly (most prefer small orders weekly) and dealing with the

same salesman or owner each time brings the best selection and price. Even here on the Forum, and

previously in the TP, having a face to go with the voice on the phone or e-mail goes/went a long

way in the right direction. IME, you'll get better treatment dealing with someone you know than

an unknown.

Want to find out what the shop wants the impression of their store to be?

Ask if you may take photos while browsing the store. Not a production with a tripod or disrupting

the activities of the store, a handheld with a remote flashcord. If you see a sign saying

"cameras are invited" they care about their image. Dan

[maddog10]

Some places may not

be zoned for retail sales, but they are allowed "counter sales". This often happens if

the store is set up in a warehouse. This may or may not be case for the stores you are mentioning.

There may also be insurance reasons. Rent for a non-retail warehouse will be considerably less

expensive than a retail storefront.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3620:date=Jan 15 2007, 05:29 PM:name=maddog10)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maddog10

@ Jan 15 2007, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3620"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Some places may not be zoned for retail sales, but

they are allowed "counter sales". This often happens if the store is set up in a

warehouse. This may or may not be case for the stores you are mentioning. There may also be

insurance reasons. Rent for a non-retail warehouse will be considerably less expensive than a

retail storefront.</div>
How would someone posting such a

"nice" response be stuck with a handle like maddog? You're being too considerate. I

found out later that the plant place grew grass and also had prohibited orchids from So America.

They sure had some nice cars in the parking lot. <grin>

Years ago I visited some

stores in Singapore than worked that way. Somemeyer and Grimes have mentioned stores in Taiwan do

the same thing now. Someday I'd like to visit that street, alternating bicycle shops and fish

shops all the way down the street. Sounds interesting to say the least.

There was a

store near Austin that had a showroom but didn't sell anything on display. When you gave an

order someone brought it from "home." It was a strange yet nice place, car lot in front,

mugs and beer steins in one showroom for sale and then the fish shop. Quite a few in the ACA and

TCA have purchased fish from him, Keegan Armke. I understand someone bought all the tanks and moved

them somewhere in the Austin area. <span style="color:#ff0000"><!--/coloro--

>Correction: San Antonio. <http://www.davesfish.com>
<span

style="color:#3333ff">For anyone not familiar with Texas, San Antonio is over an hour

away from Austin.</span>
</span>
If

you're wondering if you've purchased fish from Keegan, his bags at the conventions had

color photos of a male and a description of the fish, sometimes with references. His bags really

stood out. Keegan looked kind-of like a cross between Bam Bam (of Flintstones fame) and the

"Crocodile Hunter" Steve Irwin. Dan

[Lisachromis]

A local HCCC member

bought Keegan's stuff and is operating under the name "Dave's Fish"

http://www.davesfish.com/

[Patrick Kelly]

I think we are blessed

in this area that we have multiple LFS that not only have the fish that bring in the regular money

but have some of the stuff I look for. I try to only purchase from stores that support my club.

If a store does not like clubs, then club members should not support the store.
Of course we

have one fairly new store that is owned by club members. You know they will support the clubs and

even send us members.

When it comes to price, I will never buy from the big box stores.

I would rather give my money to the LFS/mom-pop stores. Of course I usually have store credit at

those stores so that makes the difference.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3627:date=Jan 16 2007, 02:07 PM:name=Patrick Kelly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

(Patrick Kelly @ Jan 16 2007, 02:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3627"><

{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>... I try to only purchase from

stores that support my club. If a store does not like clubs, then club members should not support

the store.

...When it comes to price, I will never buy from the big box stores. I

would rather give my money to the LFS/mom-pop stores. Of course I usually have store credit at

those stores so that makes the difference.</div>
Sounds

reasonable.

NEVER?? Listen, I hate Walmart and seldom ever visit, but if I were there

and found something I wanted (yeah, I know, what are the odds?) I'd buy it.

About

the store credit... what do you normally get? Do they give you TP price? Price on another list? 1/3

or 1/2 of retail? What? Dan

[Patrick Kelly]

The only thing that I

have ever bought from a box store is a bag of salt because I needed it right away.
Wanted to

do shrimp and I was out and the LFS was closed on a holiday.
I do buy a lot of dry goods

from That Fish Place. I stop there every couple of months when I am in that area. I guess you

could not call them a LFS but I have been going there for 26 years. It is about 1 1/4 hours from

me and I go to the local club near there at times.

Price.
I have 2 stores that give

me credit at 1/3 of retail.
Another store gives me cash. That one varies. Usually between 1/3

and 1/4. Depends on the fish and how many I have. If I have a lot of them, then we lower the

price and they put them on sale. Clears my tanks for grow out. My biggest problem is not usually

getting rid of the fish but space to grow them. Most of my tanks are small. I am not in it for

the money which is obvious when you do store credit. But last year I figure selling fish to the

stores paid for about 80% of what I spent on food, filters, bulbs, etc. Just helps to offset

cost.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3635:date=Jan 17 2007, 06:46 AM:name=Patrick Kelly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

(Patrick Kelly @ Jan 17 2007, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3635"><

{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>...Price.
I have 2 stores that

give me credit at 1/3 of retail.
Another store gives me cash. That one varies. Usually

between 1/3 and 1/4. Depends on the fish and how many I have. If I have a lot of them, then we

lower the price and they put them on sale. Clears my tanks for grow out. My biggest problem is

not usually getting rid of the fish but space to grow them.</div>
Moving fry without screwing the local market is one of the best reasons for using the TP. There

are pockets across the US (probably Canada too) where something that's highly desired is going

for really cheap prices because someone has destroyed the local market.
There's a thread

on MFK discussing "trade for store credit" but they're mostly talking about getting

rid of big fish. I assume you're talking fry or young vs adults. Dan

[bobrfish]

In my area, LFS will not take

fry. They cannot sell them. They do not want to feed them either.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3640:date=Jan 17 2007, 02:51 PM:name=bobrfish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobrfish

@ Jan 17 2007, 02:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>In my area, LFS will not take fry. They cannot

sell them. They do not want to feed them either.</div>
I'm

sorry. I wasn't clear what I meant. I'd consider mbuna fry to be a saleable size of over an

inch. Bigger's better. I didn't mean babies. Dan

[Patrick Kelly]

Mbuna 1 1/2 inches to

2.
Peacocks I usually go 2 1/2 to 3.
Young adults.
Its just what I like to play

with. I don't really have fish that would be wanted in the TP and amost never ship if I can

get out of it.

For the first time, I took fish to the OCA convention in November. I

made just enough money from the fish to pay for my room, registration, and the fish I bought at the

auction. I did not stay glued to my room to sell. If I was there the door was open. If not then

I was at a talk or the bar having a good time. I was not there to sell. I was there to be at the

convention and see the talks and people. But it made it easier to justify going to 3 or 4

conventions last year when I basically paid for the last one. At least to the wife.
It did

not cover the supplies I bought from Kens, the food we ate and the gas. Let alone the bar

tab...lol

I just raise fish to suppliment my habit so to speak.

[andregurov]

<!--quoteo

(post=3591:date=Jan 13 2007, 04:05 PM:name=fishmaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishmaven

@ Jan 13 2007, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd suggest trying to cultivate a relationship

with a single store of your choosing. Make them aware of what you'd like and ask to be called

if something you want is available, is coming, or has arrived in the store.</div><!

--QuoteEEnd-->

This, long-term, certainly is one of the wisest decisions a hobbyist can

choose to make their LFS a pleasant experience. Many customers leave stores and never return

simply because the store didn't have what they wanted and neither the customer nor the store

could be buggered to help each other. I tend to believe that most LFS derive more business from

word-of-mouth than advertising. Or, I guess, lose more business, depending on how unreceptive they

are http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

It would be nice to see scientific

names posted for all fish in stores, but as a LFS guy, this is incredibly difficult. While I could

manage it on cichlids and loricariids (my personal interests) when broached on the fields of

characins, gouramis, and PARTICULARLY livebearers I would embarrass myself greatly. I've tried

this in the past to mixed results. Some customers found it offputting, as if they were having

their nose rubbed in by a bunch of piscine pedants. Others (precious few, thankfully) argued about

the names, specifically with frontosas and peacocks. I have learned it is NEVER good to argue with

a customer http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif so we stopped with the

scientific nomenclature (except with CA cichlids, mainly because there are no cool trade names for

Caquetaia umbriferum and Tomocichla tuba - umbee? or frugivorous rheophile?).

Irregardless, all approaches pale next to the human touch. Promos may get peeps between the doors,

but personal, intelligent, informed, and meaningful contact keep them coming. At least I believe

that all the way to bankruptcy court.

This thread does give me much to think about ...

both as a customer and seller.

J

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3663:date=Jan 20 2007, 10:55 PM:name=andregurov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

(andregurov @ Jan 20 2007, 10:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3663"><

{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I have learned it is NEVER good to

argue with a customer http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif <span

style="color:#3366ff">
Good thinking, I've had difficulty with this in the

past.<grin> If I were still in retail...?

I have FINALLY stopped arguing

pronounciation of scientific names. After 3 years of Latin and 1 of Greek it was bothersome to have

people tell me I was doing it wrong. Now, I no longer care.</span>

Promos may get peeps between the doors, but personal, intelligent, informed, and

meaningful contact keep them coming. At least I believe that all the way to bankruptcy court.
<span style="color:#3366ff">
You could have the best

store in the world but you've got to get the customer there the first time; then there should

be a hook to get them to return.</span>

This thread does give

me much to think about ... both as a customer and seller. J</div><!--QuoteEEnd--

>
<span style="color:#3366ff">
You didn't tell us

of your best, or most successful, promo (?) or your trade-in policy (?) Dan</span><!-

-/colorc-->

[andregurov]

<!--quoteo

(post=3666:date=Jan 21 2007, 02:29 AM:name=fishmaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishmaven

@ Jan 21 2007, 02:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'><span

style="color:#3366ff">
You didn't tell us of your best, or most successful,

promo (?) or your trade-in policy (?) Dan</span></div><!

--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't know of any of mine that are "successful" ...

trade-in policy is quite open. I'll give more credit on a fish traded in than I would pay to a

wholesaler. My opinion is that accepting trade-ins gives me much goodwill with the customer,

solidifies in their mind the importance of the store in their LFS rankings, and allows me to really

plant myself on a first-name basis with them. A prudent financial approach? Honestly, there

aren't so many trade-ins to make me lose much on it. I do draw the line when they believe

their 10" oscar is worth $100 http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif I'd love for someone to offer me up

a batch of mbuna that aren't hybridized or a group of CAs in quantity (and not magvii http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif ) - that just doesn't happen down here.

As

far as promos, my dirty secret is the sponsoring of the goldfish booth at fairs. But not for

immediate free fish - a card for free goldfish to make them come in. I accept the tradeoff of

sending thousands of feeder goldfish to their doom (as some do not listen regarding proper goldfish

care - but many, incredibly, do; I find myself unfairly selling people short!) for the

opportunity to introduce many children to the precious joys of fishkeeping. It may not "pay

off" for me in the short/long term, but it will for the hobby, and that is really what is

important and why we are here in the ACA.

[Led]

Bob, you mentioned your LFS do

not want fry. I know the main reasons for this....not fully colored, have to utilize tank space to

grow them out, time, etc. But, if you think about many Aquarium Societies and think about an

auction.....most of the fish there are fry. A large % anyway. Maybe LFS need to consider doing

more fry. The educated hobbyists will know what they are and what they will turn into. There are

books for others. Or, you can always tape a pic to the tank. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif If they did carry fry at decent prices they

might draw in more business. It would also introduce newbies to the idea of growing fish out and

seeing more of the hobby than the instant gratification that most of them experience till they kill

their fish. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif Well, just a

few thoughts.

[bobrfish]

Yeah, I know why LFS do not

want small fish. By the time I raise the fish to size store wants, I can sell the fish myself, no

problem. Make more money doing it too.

Only time LFS is handy is to raise to a size

and dump them all at once. All LFS here will only offer store credit, no cash. None of LFS have

anything I want to use credit on.

Today, when I enter 8 out of 10 LFS, there is no way I

would buy stock from them even if it something I want or could afford. Most of the time, there are

no livestock I want. Tanks are jammed full, often with females that are difficult to tell apart.

Sure, LFS need to make a buck and maybe this is the only way to do it.