Help with a biotope tank

[jgentry]

I'm going to be clearing out my 220g in a few weeks as it's current inhabitants are getting a much needed upgrade. I was hoping to setup a biotope tank based around one of my large CA pairs. I'm doing some reading but still don't know enough about other fish that come from the same waters to match up with what I have. I have hoping to use one of my large pairs, a sifter of some sort and some cryptoheros types.

Here's a list of my pairs that I was considering.

Herichthys Carpintis Escondido
Paratheraps Fenestratus "Catamaco"
Amphilophus Xiloaensis
Astatheros Robertsoni

Any suggestions for fish that would be found with any of these guys in the wild that would possibly work in a 220g?

[chc]

Sounds fun!

The a tank based around the xilos would allow for the following Nicaraguan crater lake biotope:
- xiloaensis
- rostratus (sifter)
- nematopus, centrarchus, or nigrofasciatus (Crypto types)
- (nicaraguensis might also be a good choice)

Robertsoni are pretty widespread, so the following might fit (based on a Mexican or Guatemalan idea):
- robertsoni (sifter)
- spilurus (Crypto)
- octofasciatus


If you considered the carps and catemacos 'Mexican' they could be tanked together:
- carpintis
- fene 'Catemaco'
- Thoricthys species (sifter)
- grammodes (if you thought the Thoricthys were a little "soft" for that tank)

Just some ideas....... Enjoy!

[jgentry]

Sounds fun!

The a tank based around the xilos would allow for the following Nicaraguan crater lake biotope:
- xiloaensis
- rostratus (sifter)
- nematopus, centrarchus, or nigrofasciatus (Crypto types)
- (nicaraguensis might also be a good choice)

Robertsoni are pretty widespread, so the following might fit (based on a Mexican or Guatemalan idea):
- robertsoni (sifter)
- spilurus (Crypto)
- octofasciatus


If you considered the carps and catemacos 'Mexican' they could be tanked together:
- carpintis
- fene 'Catemaco'
- Thoricthys species (sifter)
- grammodes (if you thought the Thoricthys were a little "soft" for that tank)

Just some ideas....... Enjoy!


Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some research on all of them. I have all of the fish for the Nicaraguan setup. The rostratus I have are still fry but are growing quickly. I have 2 different xilo pairs so I could probably combine them with the smaller pair without to much risk. I have some lago nic cons as well and a couple centrarchus pairs. I like not having to buy anymore fish for this one:D. I also like the last option as it combines several large fish and might make a little more colorful display. I have everything on that list except a thoricthys species so that wouldn't involve much purchasing either. I wonder how the carpintis and fenestratus would do in a tank together. My fenestratus are really aggressive.

Thanks for the good info Chris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jgentry]

After doing a little research I'm leaning towards this setup.

Xiloaensis pair
Neets
Multispinosa
Centrarchus
Rostratus

Is there any chance of fitting a parachromis (not a dovii of course) or balckbelt in there. I'm leaning towards no but figured I'd ask some people with a lot more experience with them then I have.

[chc]

You could certainly rotate smallish dovii in and out of there, getting rid of them as they approach 10"+ or so (depending on the fish). A better idea may be to include managuensis as they don't get as large. Loisellei might even be a better choice as they stay even smaller. Both species would be appropriate for a Nicaraguan biotope.

Even so, I've been able to keep very large dovii with quite small fish on many occasions. The male in the link below lived with fish from small convicts to 14-15" Amphs and the like. Of course the tank was quite large.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Th-3YQGpg


Regarding a blackbelt, you could certainly fit one in that setup (I had a beautiful male in a 300 Nic tank a few years back), but as I'm sure you know they are quite aggressive too. Those and fenestratus are about the same in aggression as I've discovered over the year. That is to say, they can both be very aggressive in certain circumstances. Given that a BB would significantly outgrow a xiloaensis, a single male might make a nice centerpiece. You might even be able to fit a pair, a pair of xiloensis, and a pair of Cryptos. However, if you want all the species indicated about (the rainbows, rostratus, etc.) I would try to keep aggression down and eliminate any pairing of BB's. In that case the single BB might be a better choice.

Basically, I think a Parachromis or BB should be thought of as an alpha fish and all others as breeders holding small territories that the alpha can't (or doesn't care to) access.

[newworld]

Xiloa would be very easy, all of those fish you listed are present (i was there in 2010), Xiloa were i was was shallow and weedy or large sandy areas with the ocassional rock/boulder areas.....crater lakes in nicaragua (xiloa,apoyo, nicaragua) had both biotopes....

[jgentry]

You could certainly rotate smallish dovii in and out of there, getting rid of them as they approach 10"+ or so (depending on the fish). A better idea may be to include managuensis as they don't get as large. Loisellei might even be a better choice as they stay even smaller. Both species would be appropriate for a Nicaraguan biotope.

Even so, I've been able to keep very large dovii with quite small fish on many occasions. The male in the link below lived with fish from small convicts to 14-15" Amphs and the like. Of course the tank was quite large.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Th-3YQGpg


Regarding a blackbelt, you could certainly fit one in that setup (I had a beautiful male in a 300 Nic tank a few years back), but as I'm sure you know they are quite aggressive too. Those and fenestratus are about the same in aggression as I've discovered over the year. That is to say, they can both be very aggressive in certain circumstances. Given that a BB would significantly outgrow a xiloaensis, a single male might make a nice centerpiece. You might even be able to fit a pair, a pair of xiloensis, and a pair of Cryptos. However, if you want all the species indicated about (the rainbows, rostratus, etc.) I would try to keep aggression down and eliminate any pairing of BB's. In that case the single BB might be a better choice.

Basically, I think a Parachromis or BB should be thought of as an alpha fish and all others as breeders holding small territories that the alpha can't (or doesn't care to) access.

Kind of what I was Thinking. A lone male Jag or blackbelt might make a nice addition. Although the blackbelt might end up being a real pain. They look so nice though and get so big and impressive. Great Dovii vid!! How big is that guy? 20-21" or so?


Xiloa would be very easy, all of those fish you listed are present (i was there in 2010), Xiloa were i was was shallow and weedy or large sandy areas with the ocassional rock/boulder areas.....crater lakes in nicaragua (xiloa,apoyo, nicaragua) had both biotopes....

That was going to be my next question. How to layout the tank. It already has a real fine gravel substrait so I'll stick with that. I also have a nice stack of big round rocks in there and a bunch of driftwood.

Should I remove all of the driftwood? Is there any normally found in these lakes? If I remove the driftwood what should I redecorate with to have a nice but fairly natural look. I have some real worn looking strawberry pots that might look nice that the fish would like. not exactly natural looking though.

[newworld]

i have some pics of my trip on gcca.net of nicaragua if that will help, as for xiloa i didn't remember seeing any wood, really either shallow weedy areas with some big rocks or just sand and big rocks...the bottom was fine so the substrate shloud be great...you could also add managuense and amarillo to the native list...

[jgentry]

i have some pics of my trip on gcca.net of nicaragua if that will help, as for xiloa i didn't remember seeing any wood, really either shallow weedy areas with some big rocks or just sand and big rocks...the bottom was fine so the substrate shloud be great...you could also add managuense and amarillo to the native list...

I'll check out your pics. Thanks for all the info.

[chc]

JD, yeah. That dovii was about that size in that video.

Here's a pic of that BB from the Nic tank I mentioned. As you can see, he eventually had to be separated due to his inability to play nicely!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c115/colemanch/IMG_3161.jpg

[jgentry]

Great looking blackbelt

[newworld]

yeah the blackbelts are very dark in the lake...not really showing a blackbelt or red coloration

[chc]

yeah the blackbelts are very dark in the lake...not really showing a blackbelt or red coloration


To be honest, the BB in the photo is from Costa. The Nic BB's I've had are not much to look at. As you say, very dark and not much color.

[newworld]

That pic is mine from lake nicaragua may 2010, not the best pic of the maculicauda or any other pic for that matter hahaha

[chc]

That pic is mine from lake nicaragua may 2010, not the best pic of the maculicauda or any other pic for that matter hahaha


Pic? I don't see one... :confused:

[newworld]

sorry i was referring to my crummy pics of nicaragua at gcca.net

[chc]

sorry i was referring to my crummy pics of nicaragua at gcca.net

Gotcha! (Heading over there now....)

[jgentry]

Well all fish are getting moved this Monday.

I'm still undecided on what I want. I like the Nic setup. But I also really like hte idea of my Escondido's and fenestratus making a really colorful display. Does anyone think this might work?

Escondido pair
Fenestratus "catemaco" group
Herichthys turquoise lone unkown sexed fish
Salvini pair?

That is a lot of really mean fish. Any chance of it working?

[chc]

I think it will probably be fine. There are plenty of fish to mix up the aggression. The addition of more dithers (large characins, barbs, etc.) could reduce aggression even more.

Assuming you want them to breed, I'd just make sure any cover was on opposite ends of the tank (or even just one end) to allow the greatest amount of common area. If you're not interested in breeding, I've often included plecos or other tough cats for the sole purpose of eating eggs each night whenever I wanted to eliminate egg/fry guarding aggression.

It might be a better idea, though, to just give up on the Escons and send them to me!!! ; )

[jgentry]

I think it will probably be fine. There are plenty of fish to mix up the aggression. The addition of more dithers (large characins, barbs, etc.) could reduce aggression even more.

Assuming you want them to breed, I'd just make sure any cover was on opposite ends of the tank (or even just one end) to allow the greatest amount of common area. If you're not interested in breeding, I've often included plecos or other tough cats for the sole purpose of eating eggs each night whenever I wanted to eliminate egg/fry guarding aggression.

It might be a better idea, though, to just give up on the Escons and send them to me!!! ; )

Hah, hah, everyone is always trying to get them. I might try both setups for a month each and see which I like better.

[smitty]

Chris very nice BB. I know they can be a bit aggressive.

[jgentry]

Well I got the tank setup and the fish moved last night. While cleaning out all of my CA's from my pond I finally decided to go the mexico route. While not nearly as location specific as the Nic tank would have been I just thought in the end it would be a more active and colorful display. Right now the tank is setup with a huge strawberry pot on one end and a big stack or rocks on the other. I left one piece of driftwood in just to add some cover. Now I just need to find some fake plants that would be natural to this area. Any suggestions?

Here is the current list of fish in the tank
Carpintis Escondido 11" male
Carpintis Escondido 5" growouts X3
Paratheraps Fenestratus "Catemaco" adult trio
Paratheraps Fenestratus "Catemaco" 2" fry X4
Herichthys sp "turquoise" 5" X1

I did not add the salvini yet and I'm not sure I'm going to. I will thin out the stock as needed but right now I thought the larger number of fish and the wide range of sizes would keep the aggression down. So far so good as all the fish as actively swimming this morning and nothing seems to be fighting. I am already seeing breeding behavior though as the catemaco's are clearing a rock and one of my smaller carps is in the breeding dress in the large pot with my huge male. I'm not sure how things will go if everything starts breeding.

I'll get a video up later today.

Thanks for everyones help with this setup. I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks of something else to add to the setup:D.

[jgentry]

Here's the video. The catemaco's came out really washed out in the video. In real life they are blazing pink. Not sure why it didn't show up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3tF3wWgOeg

I can't ever seem to figure out how to embed it on this page so if someone else knows how feel free to help out.

Please give me any suggestions for other fish or tank decor if anything comes to mind.

[jgentry]

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/jgentry12/P1310142.jpg
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/jgentry12/P1310143.jpg
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/jgentry12/P1310147.jpg
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/jgentry12/P1310149.jpg
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/jgentry12/P1310150.jpg
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/jgentry12/P1310151.jpg
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/jgentry12/P1310154.jpg

[chc]

Very good mix of fish! They look like they get along just fine.

[jgentry]

Thanks Chris. And thanks for the stocking suggestions. So far I really love the tank. The catemaco's are always swimming. They seem to mix really well with the herichthys.

[jgentry]

Well, so far this tank has come along nicely. I have had mild aggression between my pink fenetrastus but they always like to chase. Otherwise there is slim to no aggression between the fish.

Here's my question. What other non cichlids come from mexico that might go well in the tank. Right now I have a couple of SA pleco's that I would rather replace for something more fitting if possible. Any catfish or pleco's from mexico?