help (air exchanger) for new fish room

[dave]

Hello this is my very first blog ok here it goes my hobby has taken over my mind and now it’s telling my body what to do? I am in the process of building my first fish room in my basement (peacock cichlids aulonocara ) so here is what I have thus far my room is 15’x10’ 2x4 construction insulated with a vapor barrier with green board.i am worried about mold I will have a dehumidifier in the room and the room will heat the tanks (79) with exception of my discus. do I need to install an air exchanger? If so does anyone know where I can get a unit for my room size?

[Mrfiremouth]

I have one for sale. It doesn't work in my configuration. They are meant to be attached to a HVAC unit connected to the house. Mine stands alone and draws air from the outside and exhaust room air to the outside. When it is colder outside it works great because the cool dry air is awesome at removing excess humidity. But, when it is hot and humid outside like most of the 9 months of the year around St.Louis it just pumps in more humidity. The drawback for my set up is that I am not connected to an HVAC system the way the system was designed to be set up. If I was it would work perfectly. In my situation, it is not logistically possible to connect the fishroom to the house due to the distances involved. I think you would benefit in a basement from the use of an air exchanger. With 79 tanks I would make sure they have covers/lids and I would purchase a larger dehumidifier and hard plumb the drain tube to a working floor drain.

I have about 6 weeks during summer and fall when the outside air is perfect for my situation. My fishroom is 14'x14' with 1,100g worth of tanks(11) in it. My SW systems run open top and cause a lot of humidity in the room. :(

[Mrfiremouth]

Here is how I installed mine...
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/mrfiremouth/SUPER180/180g017.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/mrfiremouth/SUPER180/180g018.jpg

[paddysdaddy]

I have a very large air exchanger in my fish room of ~200 tanks, most without solid covers and I LOVE it! It is on a humidistat, comes on when necessary and is completely effective. Initially, the concept seemed just too simple to work, but experience shows they really ARE as effective and maintenance free as they seem.
As to a source, I found mine on Craig's List in Wisconsin while in Chicago for an auction, it was about 8% of the "new" price and was 6 months old. The savings on it paid for the trip and more. It does consume 1000 watts, but it runs on very short cycles of 20 minutes about every 2 hours. I've heard HVAC contractors sometimes have used ones available, maybe that's worth a try.
I've run de-humidifiers for many years in the past and found them to be expensive to run, short lived and not reliable. In some environments, the heat they generate can be a worry, in others it is a blessing.
Each of us have their own opinions, needs and experience but this is my two cents.
Good luck!!!

[paddysdaddy]

Pic of air exchanger, before ducting connected

[bobrfish]

I have an air exchanger. Works well during winter. AC takes care of humidity in Summer.
However, Spring and Fall the humidity outside may often equal humidity inside.
Based on my situation, a whole house dehumidifer such as Ultra Aire unit would make more sense than an air exchanger. Anyone want to buy an air exchanger?

http://www.thermastor.com/Ultra-Aire-UA-100V/images/Ultra-Aire-UA-100V.jpg

[tjudy]

I do not use an air exchanger. It sounds like your room is going to be very tight with the vapor barriers. I suggest using tight glass tops to reduce evaporation into the air and use a dehumidifier. If that does not control the humidity, then look at installing an air exchanger.

[dave]

Thank you everyone for you help I will take each one under consitteration.just a note the (79) was not the amount of tanks it was the temp of the room sorry for any confusion. And if you are wondering the amount of tanks to date is 12-55 gallon tanks, 6-40 gallon breeders, 2-90 gallon grow out tanks, 14-10 gallon tanks and a partridge in a pear tree witch brings us to a grand total of 34 tanks and 1,220 gallons of water

[chc]

I've never seen a pear tree in a fish room. Sounds interesting! ; )

The best air exchanger I ever had was a garage door!

Regarding covering tanks, I get concerned about gas exchange when lids are too tight. In the past, I've been able to have aggressive degassing take place in bio-towers since all the tanks were on a central system. Anyone else worried about that?

[tjudy]

If you are using air to power your filters then gas exchange is not a problem. There will be a gap wherever the cords/airlines enter the tanks and that is plenty of room for air to readily move in and out.

[chc]

If you are using air to power your filters then gas exchange is not a problem. There will be a gap wherever the cords/airlines enter the tanks and that is plenty of room for air to readily move in and out.

Yeah, I figured most people left a bit of room. Plus, the air pump is pulling from a fresh air portion of the room (as compared to what would be in the tank). But I've seen some people practically lock out air while at the same time running canisters. The absence of an air driven system often leaves no way to aggressively introduce fresh air.

My 10'x4' outdoor tank is covered for about five months of the year. I leave about a six square inch section open near the filter return and some small gaps around the lids here and there. Even though the temperature remains the same all year long (except in the very depth of the summer) I can definitely see a less robust "biology" (for lack of a better word) whenever it's been covered for a few days. Similar to the example I described above with canister filtration, I am not currently forcing any atmospheric air into the tank (using a large contained pool type filter and external pump). This has me thinking. I wonder if I should look into very large air systems???

Sorry for the hijack........ Back on topic, the best air exchanger I ever had was a garage door! Haha! Cheap and effective.......but of course I lived in Florida at the time. That plan wouldn't work so well here in Virginia!

[bobrfish]

The best air exchanger I ever had was a garage door!

My garage is for my vehicles not my fish. If i did put a garage door in my fish room, I would be a fool to open it this week. The high temp for last few days and for next few days is 8 degrees F. Predicted low is -16 F

[bobrfish]

Regarding sealing top of tank.
Concentration of oxygen in air is 1430 mg/L
Concentration of oxygen in water is 8 mg/L
Fish can live indefinitely at oxygen concentration of 5 mg/L

It does not seem possible that all oxygen in the inch or two of air under a tight glass top could be depleted. However, I do not know if that is true or not.

[DogFish]

My garage is for my vehicles not my fish. If i did put a garage door in my fish room, I would be a fool to open it this week. The high temp for last few days and for next few days is 8 degrees F. Predicted low is -16 F

I unfortunately live in a area that does not have basement to house a fishroom. If I was to dig down a foot or two, I would hit water so the alternative is to put the fish in the garage or build a small shed. The temperature for this week is the highs in the 60 F. to the mid 70.F in Tampa FL.

After reading your post, you defiantly need a break from the cold and the TBAS is having a auction this Saturday. Jump on a plane and come on down, that is if the roads are open.

[chc]

Regarding sealing top of tank.
Concentration of oxygen in air is 1430 mg/L
Concentration of oxygen in water is 8 mg/L
Fish can live indefinitely at oxygen concentration of 5 mg/L

It does not seem possible that all oxygen in the inch or two of air under a tight glass top could be depleted. However, I do not know if that is true or not.

Then why provide any aeration or surface agitation at all? ;)

The nitrification process uses oxygen too, and the amount needed fluctuates relative to the bioload. Couple that with the higher O2 preferences of some riverines and it is a difficult thing to exactly calculate.

[bobrfish]

We are going to Kissimee in Feb. for a few days. Looking forward to seeing some wildlife again.

Amount of surface agitation depends on bioload. A planted tank I kept was still as glass on the surface with CO2 being injected deep into the tank. There may have been 20 small fish in this tank, as fish used oxygen plants created replacement O2.

In a tank with no plants, there has to be surface agitation to expidite O2 transfer from air into water. Again, the greater the bioload, the greater the agitation. Without carrying out experiments to determine how much O2 an individual fish uses and multiplying by bioload one could determine how much O2 must enter water over time. Calculating a volume for area between water surface and glass would then allow for some first approximations as to whether fish could deplete oxygen in this space. Will look into that later.

[Mrfiremouth]

I used to test Dissolved Oxygen when those test kits first came out. I was amazed how most tanks maintained was at 5 or 6ppm.(low) I found by using carbon, doing more water changes to reduce nutrients, and adding at least 2 airstones I could get it up to 8ppm(near saturation). Only with the use of a Hyperbolic reactor could I get O2 to saturation at 10ppm. I found that nitrates disappeared and algae would not grow at this level. I don't think the higher O2 content helped the fish though.

When I ran the maintenance company I was always trying new products to help me limit how much time I spent cleaning tanks or making visits.

[chc]

When I ran the maintenance company I was always trying new products to help me limit how much time I spent cleaning tanks or making visits.


Did you come up with the perfect formula????? :D