Blackwater Extract

[tiedyeman]

Hey all,
I am setting up a new 40B tank for 4 nannacara anomola and would like to add blackwater extract. Their current tank is 29 gallons and has a piece of driftwood that continuously leaks tannis. I think this looks sweet and the fish are vibrant, fat and happy. I am considering using this product to introduce tannins into the water column. I am using RO water the ph is neutral. Will using this complicate anything or is it safe to use?
Thanks!
Bruce

[slimbolen99]

I'd say leave it as is...eventually the driftwood will run out of tanins to leak, but if I remember correctly, that BWE is expensive! Plus, I don't believe the n. anomola are going to need it, mine spawned in just regular water. Hopefully someone with some experience in the BWE will chime in.

[tiedyeman]

I just like the way it looks, but don't want it to mess with ph etc. That's my main concern.

[Mike Wise]

I agree, Blackwater Extract is expensive! Instead, go out and collect a bag full of oak leaves. They should be easy to find in Indiana. Then just give the leaves a quick boil and use the extract. Better yet, just sterilize the leaves and then add them to the tank. The fish will love them! They eventually disintegrate, but definitely cheaper than BWE.

[pitdogg2]

oak leaves work and you can also buy a bad of peat moss from wally world or something along that line and put in some panty hose or some other bag. depending on the buffer of the tank it may or may not lower the ph. You can also use more tap water with the RO or if you're using something to buffer the RO just use more

[paddysdaddy]

Yes, I'm cheap, but I've made my own BWE by boiling clean peat, straining it and using the resulting liquid in my tanks. Boil it again, and "can" it or refrigerate for storage. If you are married, use an old pot and do this on a day while your lady is away, don't ask how I know this :)


oak leaves work and you can also buy a bad of peat moss from wally world or something along that line and put in some panty hose or some other bag. depending on the buffer of the tank it may or may not lower the ph. You can also use more tap water with the RO or if you're using something to buffer the RO just use more

[tiedyeman]

We just got about 2 feet of snow so oak leaves are a bit frozen and buried:lol: I have peat granules...but because I use straight up RO water I am not too anxious to try anything that would throw the Ph off. I can give the peat a shot if you think it won't hurt anything. Thanks for the advice guys!

Bruce

[pitdogg2]

We just got about 2 feet of snow so oak leaves are a bit frozen and buried:lol: I have peat granules...but because I use straight up RO water I am not too anxious to try anything that would throw the Ph off. I can give the peat a shot if you think it won't hurt anything. Thanks for the advice guys!

Bruce

then your water is not at a neutral PH...anything you put into that tank as a buffer will cause it to go north or south VERY FAST. I used straight RO when i had Discus so i could keep the Ph at 4.5. If you put anything in it (like peat) it will crash so fast into the acid range most of your fish may die from PH shock. The reason you can say your water is 7.0 is because it has equal parts of nothing hence 7.0. Try taking a gallon of RO and putting a few drops of acid buffer and see where the PH is in a few hours, I'll bet it drops to a PH of 3 or 4 fast.

[tiedyeman]

OK, I think there are some products that can be purchased to add minerals back into the water...correct? I hate to use de-chlorinated tap water from my town, the water is really really hard and nasty. ABout all it is good for is flushing the toilet and showering.

[chc]

OK, I think there are some products that can be purchased to add minerals back into the water...correct? I hate to use de-chlorinated tap water from my town, the water is really really hard and nasty. ABout all it is good for is flushing the toilet and showering.

Or you could just mix RO with some of your tap. That's the cheapest and easiest way to do it for most situations.

Whatever you do, make changes gradually. Also, when testing tap water make sure to let it sit overnight before doing so.

[pitdogg2]

OK, I think there are some products that can be purchased to add minerals back into the water...correct? I hate to use de-chlorinated tap water from my town, the water is really really hard and nasty. ABout all it is good for is flushing the toilet and showering.



yep there're plenty of those and they too cost a pretty penny. Your tap water would be just fine. Start out at 50/50,60/40 or 70/30 it's going to have the same minerals in it that your buying to put back in. If the fish that your keeping are from soft water then it's the 70/30-80/20 but if you're keeping African's or central american then your not doing them any favors by keeping them in such soft water. Keep in mind that fish do get most of their mineral needs from their enviroment

[chc]

yep there're plenty of those and they too cost a pretty penny. Your tap water would be just fine. Start out at 50/50,60/40 or 70/30 it's going to have the same minerals in it that your buying to put back in. If the fish that your keeping are from soft water then it's the 70/30-80/20 but if you're keeping African's or central american then your not doing them any favors by keeping them in such soft water. Keep in mind that fish do get most of their mineral needs from their enviroment


Good stuff!

I'll add that even some soft water cichlids do fine in less that "natural" conditions. Unless your fish are wild caught, you'll find many that tolerate all sorts of water conditions (especially the more generations from the wild you get).

The key is to avoid fluctuations in water parameters. Whatever you end up doing, make sure you can provide it easily and consistently. Ivan's advice to mix a given amount of tap with RO is a simple way of keeping things consistent.

[tiedyeman]

OK, thanks. I'll do a very gradual mixing in of (treated) tap water with the RO water. If I am understanding you correctly this should serve as enough of a buffer to keep the ph from fluctuating -- is that right?

[tiedyeman]

will that add the buffering needed to keep the ph from rising/falling?

[chc]

Probably....at least at first.

The processes of nitrification (i.e. the "biological filtration" that takes place in a cycled tank) can reduce pH in poorly buffered water. That depends on the particular composition of your tap water and whether or not there's any buffering substance (such as some sorts of gravel) in the tank.

Most of the time, if you are making regular water changes the new water is sufficient to keep the pH up. However, a very high waste load and the accompanying nitrification can cause big dips in poorly buffered water. Only you can tell the particulars of your situation. However, in the vast majority of tanks, as long as you keep making regular water changes you won't face any issues and would only rarely need to test water parameters.

I suggest that your use of RO water might be unnecessary only any large scale (or at all) without a full understanding of the particulars of your tap water. What was the reason for your use of it in the first place? Some people with soft water fish (and as I noted earlier even such fish are often fine in less than "natural" conditions) manage to use driftwood, oak leaves, peat, etc. in their tanks to leach tannins into the water for a more natural environment. Some of them find the can make many smallish water changes a week with straight tap water while maintaining good conditions and avoid paramater swings with large water changes. That practice allows them to eliminate RO water altogether.

If I had one piece of advice to give an aquarist, though, it would be to match his fish to his tap water. Whatever comes out of the tap should determine what sorts of fish you can most easily keep. That why I have no blackwater species at all anymore!

[bobrfish]

mixing a bit of hard, high pH tap water with RO will result in buffered pH greater than 7

to buffer pH to a value less than 7, do not add your tap water to RO water
instead you will have to create an acidic buffer or buy one, Seachem offers a number of acidic buffers
addition of an acidic buffer to RO water will create correct pH with least effect on hardness

[tiedyeman]

(If I had one piece of advice to give an aquarist, though, it would be to match his fish to his tap water. Whatever comes out of the tap should determine what sorts of fish you can most easily keep. That why I have no blackwater species at all anymore)
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I don't like African Cichlids very well. I love SA and and CA--but favorites are SA. I haven't had any problems yet, so will try small parts of tap mixed with the RO.

[Mike Wise]

I've been breeding apistos and other dwarf cichlids for over 35 years. I use peat filtered R/O water for my blackwater species. The trick is to not 'brew' the peat in the tank, but in storage tanks. In this way the hardness rises slightly, ~35ppm and the pH drops to around 4.5. Then, when doing water changes, I mix the blackwater (think of it as an industrial sized bottle of BWE) with whatever value water my fish need to breed, be it tap or R/O. Nannacara anomala (at least the species sold as such in the trade) really doesn't need super acid or soft water. Water around pH 7 and 10 dGH/KH is perfectly adequate for breeding.

[chc]

Interesting info Mike! Would love to see how you do it if you have any photos.

Please more fully explain the process.

[sheag35]

ok another method here i personally use and my Number 1 choice is the indian almond leaf, it has a number of good effects, yes it adds the tannins to the water but not as much as bogwood, but it also has beneficial anti bacterial properties, and as it decomposes in your tank it will introduce infurosia into the tank, your fish will love this little treat, and watch them use the leaf litter to hide, display and spawn under, its amazing, other products i use with the same effect are dried banana leaves and black alder cones, but also if using ro water please mix it with tap or reconditioning solutions such as kent ro right as if not your fish will miss out on essential minerals etc. that should be in the water