Honduran Red Point aggression

[number6]

Does anyone keep HRP and know

for a fact they are pure bloods?

I've read they are gentle fish, easily raised as a

pair in small tanks.

I'v heard they are crossed with Convicts all too frequently

and the result is Convict level aggression in the fry.

Lately I have read one too many

folks talk about their HRP being aggressive.

My guess is they simply slapped a label on

a pretty convict to make it more appealing... or the hybridization has spread quickly.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

[bobrfish]

Speak with Rusty Wessel at

next ACA convention or email him. He has written articles about how he discovered HRP. Thus his

insights are levels above what I could say here.

The fish is undescribed by science.

Once a scientist sits down and compares HRP to other known species within the genus, then we will

know if it is a location morph for convicts or if it is a true species.

It is true that

behavior that is recorded can be added to a key when describing a fish. However, the scientist

must record the behavior in Nature and add that photographic to the record along with preseved fish

so that subsequent scientists may evaluate the work.

Tank observations can be

interesting but cannot be used to seperate or lump two morphs into seperate species or into one

species.

[Lisachromis]

The other thing to keep

in mind, is that maybe people are keeping them in too small a tank for them to show their natural

behaviour.

[fishfarm]

I have HRP from 2 different

collection locations, one is pretty docile (Danali), the other is not (Rio Monga), Once they pair

bond they get along pretty well togehter, but a breeding pair are nasty little fish when they have

fry. But I concider that just being good parents. All Cryptoheros species have some aggression.

Bob, I believe Rusty has sent off specimens and they are currently being discribed as a new

species, they are not convicts. Ken

[number6]

<!--quoteo(post=2729:date=Oct

4 2006, 10:47 AM:name=fishfarm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishfarm @ Oct 4 2006,

10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=2729)</div><div

class='quotemain'>one is pretty docile (Danali), the other is not (Rio Monga)<!--

QuoteEnd--></div> Ah, now that is very interesting. I know behaviour from

individual to individual of any cichlid species can vary, but this jekyl and hide claim seemed at

odds.
I had one breeder say he uses 10g tanks for his pairs, and another say that his male

killed his female in a 40g breeder!

But, if collected individuals show a great

range of temperments, this explains the conflicting stories pretty clearly.

thanks

[tjudy]

Ken can shed some light on

this... I have read that the Rio Mongo form is symmpatric with C. nigrofasciatus. Are the C.

nigrofasciatus at the Danali location? If not, could it be possible that the competition with the

C. nigrofasciatus has made the Rio Mongo form more aggressive?

[bobrfish]

Archocentrus or Blue

"Honduran red points" are blue wild type convict like cichlids from

Southern Honduras discovered in 2001 by Rusty Wessel.
photo of HRP <a

href="http://www.cichlidae.com/tank.php?id=305" target="_blank">http://www.cichlidae.com/tank.php?

id=305</a>

Until 2004, blue convicts were cross bred fish, they result from breeding a

convict with with a blue Honduran red point.

Then in 2004, Wessel discovered another

fish referred to as blue convict (Archoentrus nigrofasciatus) for now. It is also a wild type blue

fish. http://www.fryangle.com/images/FT-Jun%2004.pdf (Also check cover of Buntbarsche

Bulletin, issue 232) In this article, Wessel is quoted as saying the blue convict appears to be

closely related to Archocentrus nanoluteus vs Archocentrus nigrofasciatus.

These two

blue convict types are each wild type but different from each other.

[fishfarm]

In every river in Central

America there are one, two or even three species of Cryptoheros type fish. Labeling any of them

convicts just to have something to call them is incorrect. After having been on a few collecting

trips I'm convinced that most of the domestic convicts are really hybrids of several species.

Wild convicts that I have collected look nothing like the domestic counterpart.
As far as HRP

being convicts, I don't think so. I have observed them in the wild in the Rio Monga where C

cutteri, C. nigrofasiatus and C. sp. HRP all exist together and I have never seen a mixed pair,

each species pairs with the correct mate. In discussions with fellow collectors we talked about

whether they are a natural hybrid between C. nigrofasiatus and C. cutteri, but I argue they are

not. Rusty has sent off fish for DNA annalysis from several collection locations in Honduras so we

will see in the near future what they really are. The difference from one river to the next is very

obvious in wild caught fish and the splitters in the taxonomic world could name a new species from

just about every river as they vary that much. Ken

[number6]

fascinating stuff! If

Rusty gets some of the data back, we should definately invite him to come post in this thread.