Respond to 10 items for a medicine cabinet here

[fishmaven]

Respond to the pinned

topic 10 items for a fish keeper's medicine cabinet here. Dan

[tjudy]

<!--quoteo(post=2158:date=Aug 7

2006, 12:41 PM:name=fishmaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishmaven @ Aug 7 2006,

12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=2158)</div><div

class='quotemain'>Respond to the pinned topic 10 items for a fish keeper's

medicine cabinet here. Dan</div>

I would add a

praziquantel medication (such as PraziPro). Parasitic worm infections are difficult to treat and

Prazi is effective and mild by comparison to Fluke Tabs. Prazi also does a good job on gill

flukes, which can kill fish quickly. If you are in the habit of buying recently imported wild fish

treating quarantine fish with Prazi for a few days is a good idea to clean them out of parasitic

flukes and worms.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=2209:date=Aug 9 2006, 08:33 PM:name=tjudy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjudy @

Aug 9 2006, 08:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2209"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I would add a praziquantel medication (such as

PraziPro). Parasitic worm infections are difficult to treat and Prazi is effective and mild by

comparison to Fluke Tabs. Prazi also does a good job on gill flukes, which can kill fish quickly.

If you are in the habit of buying recently imported wild fish treating quarantine fish with Prazi

for a few days is a good idea to clean them out of parasitic flukes and worms.<!--QuoteEnd--

></div>
Granted, that'd be the drug of choice for discus or geophagus

imports. It's not easy to come by without a prescription. Metronidazole, could be added for

internal protozoa but we could go on and on. Dan

[buntbarsch]

Well Dan, I have never been

a big friend of medications and chemicals. The only medication I always keep in my fish room is

"Clout", just in case I do get a case of bloat with my Tropheus. I very strongly believe

that prevention is the best "medicine". So far I was always able to treat ick and other

little pests with some sea salt and raising the temperature by a few degrees. Maybe I am lucky but

I haven't had a sick fish in ages.
I also don't use any water conditioners or buffers.

My tap water goes through 2 pre-filters filled with charcoal inserts to filter out the chlorine

and then straight in the tank. I do a 30-40% water change weekly.


[attachment=92:attachment]

[Damba]

With Madagascan's non

-iodosed salt with a temperature rise to 86 for a few days, then reduction in the

concentration by waterchanges. I always have quite a high backline reading in my Madagascan tanks

as a preventative. Also white spot treatment and this great stuff i got when we last in the States

for hole Head and Lateral Line errosion and internal worms i can't remember the name but is

thick, orange liquid and only available through the Vets in the UK.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=2224:date=Aug 10 2006, 08:19 AM:name=Damba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Damba @

Aug 10 2006, 08:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>With Madagascan's non-iodosed salt

with a temperature rise to 86 for a few days, then reduction in the concentration by waterchanges.

I always have quite a high backline reading in my Madagascan tanks as a preventative. Also white

spot treatment and this great stuff i got when we last in the States for hole Head and Lateral Line

errosion and internal worms i can't remember the name but is thick, orange liquid and only

available through the Vets in the UK.</div>
Why non-iodized

salt? Years back, non-iodized salt was preferred here in the USA for things, turns out it

didn't matter. Rock salt, sea salt, and Aquarium Pharm's salt ARE non-iodized.

Ich IS a white-spot disease. Is it the same "white spot" disease you're thinking

of?

When you come up with the name of this orange, magical elixir, please post it. Dan

[tjudy]

<div

class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>It's not easy to come by

without a prescription</div>

PraziPro is an easily used

formulation that is sold in pet stores. It is manufactured by Aquarium Science Group and

distributed by Hikari USA. They also have a good metrodinazol formulation called Metro+.

If you prefer the concentrated, and hard to use, praziquantel ASG also packages a 10 g bottle

that wil treat 1000 gallons of water. You can puchase it through Jehmco.

Unless Texas

(that is where you are at right Dan?) requires a presciption for Prazi, I do not think you need

one... at least I do not in Wisconsin.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=2240:date=Aug 10 2006, 05:54 PM:name=tjudy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjudy @

Aug 10 2006, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>PraziPro is an easily used formulation that is

sold in pet stores. It is manufactured by Aquarium Science Group and distributed by Hikari USA.

They also have a good metrodinazol formulation called Metro+.

If you prefer the

concentrated, and hard to use, praziquantel ASG also packages a 10 g bottle that wil treat 1000

gallons of water. You can puchase it through Jehmco.

Unless Texas (that is where you

are at right Dan?) requires a presciption for Prazi, I do not think you need one... at least I do

not in Wisconsin.</div>
Evidently a new product. Thanks. Dan

[Damba]

<!--quoteo(post=2230:date=Aug

10 2006, 09:28 AM:name=fishmaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishmaven @ Aug 10 2006,

09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=2230)</div><div

class='quotemain'>Why non-iodized salt? Years back, non-iodized salt was preferred

here in the USA for things, turns out it didn't matter. Rock salt, sea salt, and Aquarium

Pharm's salt ARE non-iodized.

Ich IS a white-spot disease. Is it the same

"white spot" disease you're thinking of?

When you come up with the name of

this orange, magical elixir, please post it. Dan</div>

Hi,

By whitespot i mean Ich, we tend to just call it white spot over here...

The magic stuff wac bought in Nashua Mass I seem to remember...

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=2223:date=Aug 10 2006, 07:24 AM:name=buntbarsch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

(buntbarsch @ Aug 10 2006, 07:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2223"><

{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Well Dan, I have never been a big

friend of medications and chemicals. The only medication I always keep in my fish room is

"Clout", just in case I do get a case of bloat with my Tropheus. I very strongly believe

that prevention is the best "medicine". So far I was always able to treat ick and other

little pests with some sea salt and raising the temperature by a few degrees. Maybe I am lucky but

I haven't had a sick fish in ages.
I also don't use any water conditioners or buffers.

My tap water goes through 2 pre-filters filled with charcoal inserts to filter out the chlorine

and then straight in the tank. I do a 30-40% water change weekly.
[attachment=92:attachment]

</div>
I don't know why I haven't responded to your

post until now. I check "view last posts" practically each time I visit here. Your post

must have slipped through the cracks. Sorry.

I'm not one of the "live a fuller

life through chemistry" fans either. There are reasons to have certain things on hand, in your

home, in case of an emergency. Providing a 10 best was simply a way to get members to think about

what they feel necessary and to remind them to keep those things on hand.

I agree,

prevention IS the best solution. Unfortunately, things do happen. Being able to provide really good

water is also a major advantage. The pre-filters shown in your photo also contribute. I'd like

to point out though that, here in the States, Federal law requires ammonia to be combined with

chlorine in municipal water supplies. Some areas also restrict the use of wells and require you to

use "city water." Thus the need for water conditioners.

I've designed

supply systems for stores and wholesalers that included RO systems, instant hotwater-on-demand,

water storage, mixing chambers and auto water changers. Despite the systems, things still occurred

that sometimes required constant monitoring and occasional treatment. When treating problems I

prefer using a product directed at THAT problem and NOT a wide spectrum drug or chemical. It's

unlikely that I'd ever grab Clout. I've mentioned my dislike of Clout previously, so this

time I'll describe the problem in another way. Let's say you're sick and the doctor

prescribes a med for you to take. While taking that med some other little things that have been

bugging you go away. Should you ask the doctor for a larger script just in case those things

reappear? Clout is too strong and the spectrum is too wide to be used unless as a last resort. Why

not grab the strongest med each time? They quit working eventually. Then what do you do? Checking

web news sources you'll find articles about skin staph infections resistant to treatment. Many

attribute this to indiscriminate use of misapplied drugs.

Another small point,

nitpicking maybe, "charcoal" is really good only for bar-b-ques. Activated carbon is used

as a filter media. Using it to treat the supply water is preferred by many rather than keeping it

in the filtration system used on the tanks. Many believe it "strips" the protective slime

from fish increasing risks of parasites and disease.

I'm really not trying to pick

on you, or, upset you or others with this section and my responses to questions or problems. I feel

it's very important to give precise answers, and even nitpick, rather than providing general

information that when analyzed has little substance. So, occasionally, you'll see me recommend

things that compliment each other in the treatment of a problem. (e.g. quick cure, salt, and raised

temps or Maracyn (EM) and Maracyn II (minocycline) And remind, in other cases, that interaction of

multiple drugs can be problematic. Dan

[fisher]

<!--quoteo(post=2158:date=Aug 7

2006, 12:41 PM:name=fishmaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishmaven @ Aug 7 2006,

12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=2158)</div><div

class='quotemain'>Respond to the pinned topic 10 items for a fish keeper's

medicine cabinet here. Dan</div>
[color=#000099]nice cupboard,

but what do you use for a gill/body fluke remedy when salt is not required if you were to have 100l

of water per tank? I have sevaral tanks and several fish, what is your best guess for a control of

such. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[attachment=192:attachment][attachment=192:attachment]

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3806:date=Feb 7 2007, 02:38 AM:name=fisher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fisher @

Feb 7 2007, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>[color=#000099]... what do you use for a gill/body

fluke remedy when salt is not required if you were to have 100l of water per tank?... what is your

best guess for a control of such. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif [attachment=192:attachment]

[attachment=192:attachment]</div>
Off hand, I can't think

of an instance where salt would be hurtfull. Any reason to avoid salt in this instance?

Although I don't like using it Trichlorfon seems to be the drug of choice for skinflukes and

gill flukes. Remember it's quite toxic, should be kept away from kids and animals. I'd use

gloves and avoid any intake of the powder when measuring or dispensing the drug into the tank.

(Maybe a better way would be to dissolve it in a cup of water and pour into the tank, then dispose

of the cup.) I'd probably use this in conjunction with an anti-biotic of some sort - secondary

infections do happen. On rare occasions the flukes are resistant to Trichlorfon.

I've read that Flubendazole, Mebendazole, Levamisole or Praziquantel have decent results.

I'd look them up before use to check dosages and any sidebars for handling. Of course,

there's always salt ! http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif Dan

[fisher]

cheers dan but salt is always

first hand and prazi seems to work i guess i will have to experiment a little and try a scraping

and identify something, dont know much under the the scope. cheers

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3830:date=Feb 8 2007, 01:31 AM:name=fisher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fisher @

Feb 8 2007, 01:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3830"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>cheers dan but salt is always first hand and prazi

seems to work i guess i will have to experiment a little and try a scraping and identify something,

dont know much under the the scope. cheers</div>

Most

here have rarely used a scope outside of high school or college. Although nice to have, good

troubleshooting techniques should solve the problem without the use of a scope.

I've

read some of your other posts about your troubles keeping your fish alive. Your fish aren't

supposed to die when you take them home. Rather than just assuming that you have a fluke problem

why don't you "flesh out" the symptoms for us. Unless you're getting your fish

from a source infested with flukes or feel they're established in your tank, why would you

consider the problem to be flukes? I wouldn't have even considered flukes as the problem

without eliminating many other possibilities. Stuff like prazi should be reserved for a last resort

rather than the first thing you grab.

Some things we'll need to know: <!--

coloro:#3366ff--><span style="color:#3366ff">(I'm not THE doctor. Others may want

to contribute.) Oh yeah... tell us what you DO; NOT what you think we want to hear.<!--colorc--

></span>
What part of the world do you live in?
Do you use a dechlorinator?

If so, what? How much do you use?
What are your water parameters? Temp? pH?
Do you have

a heater in the tank?
What kind of filtration do you have on the tank?
What do you feed?

Do your fish eat?
You don't keep all those fish you've mentioned together do you?
If you have multiple tanks, pick one, the worst one(?), and let's do them one-at-a-time.

100L is only a 25 gallon tank. A tank that size tends to change temperatures multiple times

a day. What are the highs and lows of your temp?

Unlike most here, (practically all feel

they do no wrong and any problems are ALWAYS someone else's fault), you seem to feel the source

of your fish is NOT the problem; kind-of like you feel you're doing something wrong. If so,

what?

I wouldn't concern yourself with breeding at this point. Let's figure out

a way to keep your fish alive first. Dan

[fisher]

<!--quoteo(post=3838:date=Feb

8 2007, 12:15 PM:name=fishmaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishmaven @ Feb 8 2007,

12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=3838)</div><div

class='quotemain'>Most here have rarely used a scope outside of high school or

college. Although nice to have, good troubleshooting techniques should solve the problem without

the use of a scope.

I've read some of your other posts about your troubles keeping

your fish alive. Your fish aren't supposed to die when you take them home. Rather than just

assuming that you have a fluke problem why don't you "flesh out" the symptoms for us.

Unless you're getting your fish from a source infested with flukes or feel they're

established in your tank, why would you consider the problem to be flukes? I wouldn't have even

considered flukes as the problem without eliminating many other possibilities. Stuff like prazi

should be reserved for a last resort rather than the first thing you grab.

Some things

we'll need to know: <span style="color:#3366ff">(I'm not

THE doctor. Others may want to contribute.) Oh yeah... tell us what you DO; NOT what you think we

want to hear.</span>
What part of the world do you live in?
Do

you use a dechlorinator? If so, what? How much do you use?
What are your water parameters?

Temp? pH?
Do you have a heater in the tank?
What kind of filtration do you have on the

tank?
What do you feed? Do your fish eat?
You don't keep all those fish you've

mentioned together do you?
If you have multiple tanks, pick one, the worst one(?), and

let's do them one-at-a-time.

100L is only a 25 gallon tank. A tank that size tends

to change temperatures multiple times a day. What are the highs and lows of your temp?

Unlike most here, (practically all feel they do no wrong and any problems are ALWAYS someone

else's fault), you seem to feel the source of your fish is NOT the problem; kind-of like you

feel you're doing something wrong. If so, what?

I wouldn't concern yourself with

breeding at this point. Let's figure out a way to keep your fish alive first. Dan<!--QuoteEnd-

-></div>
cheers for all the natural loving tips for the fish, not to be rude,

though i do work for fish farm in which we import and breed many of your desires, i look after

1200, 25 gallons, 100 Litres, 240 of these tanks for quarentine and usually am bamboosalled by most

of the specific in allllllllllll fish but when in having a problem with fish i find it hard to

distinguish between imported disease and too many in a tank at one time, if you see where i am

coming from, lots of fish, not imposeing but an newin the business and desperate for answers to

stopp the damned fin bearers from dieing. enjoying yur site, hope to add my own knowledge.
I

have around2500 litres inside my house of one australian native fish tank, at 500 litres bass,

archers, monos, silver brim and another of 15 american cichlids malawai mainly, dolphins, self

ecrested licabates, chcolates, lion heads too many coockoo cats, plecos babies of all soughts. list

goes on just enjoy sitting, dtrinking anfg watching, all day all night if i could

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=3867:date=Feb 12 2007, 03:59 AM:name=fisher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fisher

@ Feb 12 2007, 03:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3867"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>cheers for all the natural loving tips for the

fish, not to be rude, though i do work for fish farm in which we import and breed many of your

desires, i look after 1200, 25 gallons, 100 Litres, 240 of these tanks for quarentine and usually

am bamboosalled by most of the specific in allllllllllll fish but when in having a problem with

fish i find it hard to distinguish between imported disease and too many in a tank at one time, if

you see where i am coming from, lots of fish, not imposeing but an newin the business and desperate

for answers to stopp the damned fin bearers from dieing. enjoying yur site, hope to add my own

knowledge.
I have around2500 litres inside my house of one australian native fish tank, at

500 litres bass, archers, monos, silver brim and another of 15 american cichlids malawai mainly,

dolphins, self ecrested licabates, chcolates, lion heads too many coockoo cats, plecos babies of

all soughts. list goes on just enjoy sitting, dtrinking anfg watching, all day all night if i

could</div>
Well, I guess I walked into a buzz saw with my

remarks. If you had given me/us more info initially I wouldn't have wasted my time. Despite

this, I've still got a few suggestions:
1. a 25 gallon tank is too small for a box of

imports, and IMO, farm shipments to a store. Split the box between two tanks.
2. get the new

stuff out of the trashy shipping water quickly into seasoned pH adjusted temperature stable

tanks.
3. Don't mix new stuff with old stuff.
4. find a way to monitor dissolved

oxygen. The single best addition to the above suggestions, IMO, would be a high level of dissolved

oxygen.
5. if after doing this you still have problems, I'd change suppliers. If

you're married to your supplier, you may have to ask them to ship the items of the highest

mortality in multiple boxes rather than just the one.
6. You might, in addition to the above

suggestions start your new arrivals on a medicated food of your design until they've been on

premises for a week or two. Dan