What kind of talks would you like to here

[JustRon]

Voice your opinions.

If you wish to just post a generic reply, that is fine as well.

I just want to know if

you want the talks to concentrate on scientific, hobbyist, fish, collecting, etc....

[riftlaker]

<!--quoteo

(post=1552:date=Jul 24 2006, 02:38 PM:name=cichlid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cichlid

@ Jul 24 2006, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Voice your opinions.

If you wish to

just post a generic reply, that is fine as well.

I just want to know if you want the

talks to concentrate on scientific, hobbyist, fish, collecting, etc....</div><!--

QuoteEEnd-->
I think every convention should have some workshops for beginning cichlid

hobbyists like we had in Atlanta. I think it is somewhat intimidating for new members attending

their first convention. Topics such as breeding tips, fishroom ideas and gadgets, etc.

[JustRon]

Good points.

MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3;!!!!!!!!

And also comment on this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, would

you be ok if the "workshops were scheduled in a separate room during the day Saturday? Also,

what if these "workshops" were scheduled twice during the convention so you could choose

which MAJOR presentations to attend and still have a chance at a workshop?

What if the

workshops were about 30-45 minutes in duration?

[Lisachromis]

I like and dislike the

idea of the workshops. I can see the appeal of them to beginners, but there really is only so many

topics you can do. This in and of itself will get boring to people attending the conventions year

after year. Also, it will be a challenge finding someone willing to run the workshops.

Do you have any specific idea on what sort of workshops?

[Patrick Kelly]

I know everyone has

different opinions about what they like. Personally I get board during the scientific talks. They

go over my head. (yes Ron, I know it does not take much). I am more into the collecting trips,

hobbiest experiances and fish. I enjoy those more. I almost did not go to this years just because

so many of the speakers had Dr. in the name. I am glad everyone talked me into it. I did skip

most of the technical ones.
Thats just me I know.

[George]

I agree with the last guy,

whoever he is. I guess beginner stuff is OK but this is the ACA, Most of the beginner stuff

should be at the local level. Local clubs are like under-grad and this is graduate school. You

need some scientific stuff to keep the stuffed shirts happy but collecting trips and fish room

experience are where the rubber meets the road. Differences in pherangeal jaws (ya, I speeled it

wrong) are as exciting as the rate of algae growth.

Personally - collecting trips are

it.

Along with what I posted, the ACA should be working more with local clubs to do that

under-grad ed. Not something that has been common in the past.


George http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=1836:date=Jul 28 2006, 07:04 PM:name=George)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(George

@ Jul 28 2006, 07:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with the last guy, whoever he is. I guess

beginner stuff is OK but this is the ACA, Most of the beginner stuff should be at the local level.

Local clubs are like under-grad and this is graduate school. You need some scientific stuff to

keep the stuffed shirts happy but collecting trips and fish room experience are where the rubber

meets the road. Differences in pherangeal jaws (ya, I speeled it wrong) are as exciting as the

rate of algae growth.

Personally - collecting trips are it.

Along with what

I posted, the ACA should be working more with local clubs to do that under-grad ed. Not something

that has been common in the past.
George http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif</div>
First, "whoever he is" could be determined by checking his/her profile. Screen names

are supposed to make things easier. Some use it to be anonymous. Most here aren't trying to

hide who they are. They just haven't seen the importance of properly filling out their

profile.

Next, when I initially read Ron's question I saw two questions. #1 for the

forum #2 for conventions. The "lower level" talks could be held within the forum as chats

or workshops. They could also be held at the conventions. The higher level topics could be held at

both too. Advanced topics in breeding, disease control, and just basic aquariology don't have

to be given by "Drs". I'm sure most of us would have been impressed with the

knowledge of the no name stranger you sat next to at the convention or at your last fishclub

meeting if we had only gotten to mingle more. That's the purpose of this forum. You don't

HAVE to travel 2 days by car or stand in line at airport security to "talk" to another

fishkeeper.

If you'll notice there's two lines for the topic title. #1 the name

#2 a description of the topic. If we were more descriptive when we choose a title you'd know

before you clicked the topic if it were going to interest you.

As for the ACA working

with local clubs... we have a terrific speaker program. Check it out. Dan

[DeeCee]

Don't worry, Dan. George

and Pat go waaaaaay back -- George was just......being George, whoever that is http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

I agree with Pat -- some of the

talks that I saw were too technical and went into too much depth for the typical fishkeeper, IMO.

I'd start nodding off & need to go bribe someone for a cup of coffee. I think that there

should be more general cichlid info included - more speakers for the Hobbyist level. We're all

interested in conservation as well, and I know I missed some of the speakers, but didn't really

catch much on what the general public/hobbyist can or should do to promote various conservation

efforts.
I admit, it could have all happened while I was out searching for coffee

though.........

DC

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=1839:date=Jul 29 2006, 07:32 AM:name=DeeCee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeeCee

@ Jul 29 2006, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't worry, Dan. George and Pat go waaaaaay

back -- George was just......being George, whoever that is http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

I agree with Pat -- some of the

talks that I saw were too technical and went into too much depth for the typical fishkeeper, IMO.

I'd start nodding off & need to go bribe someone for a cup of coffee. I think that there

should be more general cichlid info included - more speakers for the Hobbyist level. We're all

interested in conservation as well, and I know I missed some of the speakers, but didn't really

catch much on what the general public/hobbyist can or should do to promote various conservation

efforts.
I admit, it could have all happened while I was out searching for coffee

though.........

DC</div>
RE George and Pat...

Sometimes I reply to things talking to lurkers rather than the one that posted.

I

remember sitting through Heiko's talks. We had a running bet on the slide tray that would have

either the first bare breasts or the first fish...

The single best presentation I ever

saw at a convention was put on by Dewey and Delores Scherr (sp). They used twin-synchronized slide

projectors and dual screens. They provided the projectors, most AV departments don't have them.

One of the things they did, the male one one screen, the female on the other, could be utilized in

books too. I'd rather see a split photo on a single page than flip back and forth between two

pages. On the strength of that presentation we brought the couple to Texas for a FOTAS Convention.

They did a tremendous job.

So what speakers would YOU like to have? Either here for an

online presentation or at a convention? Dan

[JustRon]

ok, let me voice a few

thoughts.

First, the conventions.

Yes, I think they are the right place for

the more serious/scientific talks. I think these are the times when those advanced hobbyists can

find an interesting bit of information they will not get on the forums.

I ALSO think

this is the right place for a second/parallel set of workshops that will interest the advanced and

even the beginner. The convention is a place where newer hobbyists come to see what the ACA is all

about. I think some of the scientific talks may discourage them, as it is not information they can

readily apply to their hobby.

As far as the forum. Someone suggested having chat

sessions here. In this discussion it was stated that they might be a bit infrequent as scheduled

events, but they would also be announced events/chats with a guest speaker present. I think then

members could look forward to chatting with someone that is an advanced hobbyist/scientist and

bringing forth questions that may be harder to get answers for elsewhere. I am NOT saying these

would have to be the only chats here, I just thought that would be a good way to interact with the

membership. The subject of the event chats could even be ACA activity such as membership,

conservation, club liaison, etc...

What do you think about these two seperate ideas?

[MsCichlid]

What kind of talks

would you like here? Hmmm...

In my opinion, an occasional scheduled chat session with an

expert would be interesting. Although, I get more from the transcripts from the session.

The topics that excite me are: Foods, Crenicichla, collecting and locations, water-

natural and manufactured, fishroom mechanics, and Crenicichla. Did I mention

Crenicichla?

Who the hell is George? http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif

Franny

[George]

Was that Franny or Fanny?

Dan sure is quick on the trigger. It's Ok though. It was just a flesh wound.

The

chat thing would be terrific but I think the typical chat could be problematic. Do we have the

technology to do a chat like the Washington Post does. The "expert" only takes questions

that make sense and are on topic while the rest of us only see those questions and answers. This

isn't meant to be critical or anything. I'm just wondering what we can and can't do.

I suspect the software to do those sorts of chats cost big time. The free- for-all chats I have

been in have always deteriorated into impossible messes. I mean Maggie could start singing or

something.

Pat and I don't go that far back, He's never eaten at my house.


George

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=1854:date=Jul 29 2006, 06:11 PM:name=George)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(George

@ Jul 29 2006, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Was that Franny or Fanny? Dan sure is quick on

the trigger. It's Ok though. It was just a flesh wound.

George<!--QuoteEnd--

></div>
Hi, I'm Dan. I'm one of the moderators here on the forum. If

you'd like you can check out MY profile. I didn't realize the fact that you and Pat were

friends and was the reason for the "whoever that is" comment. We've got about 1200

ACA members. I don't think most of the other members would have realized it either. It also

gave me an opportunity to tell newcomers to the forum about the profile section.

One of

my "jobs" on the forum is to resond to posts. Around the time I started as a moderator I

found a post by someone that hadn't received a response in almost a year. I wouldn't have

wanted to wait a year for ANY response.

I didn't mean to draw blood. Dan

[andregurov]

<!--quoteo

(post=1850:date=Jul 29 2006, 11:56 AM:name=MsCichlid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MsCichlid

@ Jul 29 2006, 11:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>In my opinion, an occasional scheduled chat

session with an expert would be interesting. Although, I get more from the transcripts from the

session.</div>

As a newbie unable to make this year's

convention - are transcripts available (in any form) of the speakers/presentations? I heard Juan

Miguel's Herichthys talk was excellent.

Unfortunately for some of us

newcomers, we don't have active local clubs (or even clubs!). I can see great merit in

running concurrent talks schemed toward both advanced, technically-proficient hobbyists and those

of us a bit less studied and experienced. Quite honestly, either format would seem to present a

"surplus of riches" - so much to learn and so little time! I envy those of you who

made it ...

J

[Erik Olson]

<!--quoteo

(post=1865:date=Jul 30 2006, 06:16 AM:name=andregurov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

(andregurov @ Jul 30 2006, 06:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1865"><

{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>As a newbie unable to make this

year's convention - are transcripts available (in any form) of the speakers/presentations? I

heard Juan Miguel's Herichthys talk was excellent.</div><!--QuoteEEnd--

>

I've been videotaping ACA conventions since 1995 for my own library, and it turns

out to be very tricky to make the talks available beyond my own library and the host club.

Sometimes the speakers are a little antsy about having their work "out there". Other

times, they've used copyrighted photos (or music). Sometimes the clubs don't want the

tapes out there because they beleive it will discourage attendance.

But I wonder if more

of them might be OK with just the AUDIO portion of the talk. I have excellent quality direct-to-

disk soundboard recordings of all the talks except the NADA afternoon.

-- Erik

[Lisachromis]

<!--quoteo

(post=1873:date=Jul 30 2006, 03:06 PM:name=Erik Olson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Erik

Olson @ Jul 30 2006, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873"><

{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I've been videotaping ACA

conventions since 1995 for my own library, and it turns out to be very tricky to make the talks

available beyond my own library and the host club. Sometimes the speakers are a little antsy about

having their work "out there". Other times, they've used copyrighted photos (or

music). Sometimes the clubs don't want the tapes out there because they beleive it will

discourage attendance.

But I wonder if more of them might be OK with just the AUDIO

portion of the talk. I have excellent quality direct-to-disk soundboard recordings of all the

talks except the NADA afternoon.

-- Erik</div>

Erik,

Would it be possible for you to post this at the forum at www.cichlidae.com (http://www.cichlidae.info/phpBB2/index.php)? I know the

question was raised there as well.....

[Erik Olson]

<!--quoteo

(post=1880:date=Jul 30 2006, 07:37 PM:name=Lisachromis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

(Lisachromis @ Jul 30 2006, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880"><

{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Erik,

Would it be

possible for you to post this at the forum at www.cichlidae.com (http://www.cichlidae.info/phpBB2/index.php)? I know the question was raised there as well.....<!--

QuoteEnd--></div>

Feel free to forward the post/info, but in general

I'm not a "forum person". Just registered here because of my involvement with the

ACA convention & wanted to pass on the photos. Hit this topic by random chance.

I

did peek over at the topic on CRC... Ah, Woody...when will he learn...it costs EVERYONE thousands

of dollars to go to the convention, and that having your material out there on disk means

there's a chance that it'll get into the hands of a local club that thinks it's pretty

cool and subsequently invites you to speak.

[MsCichlid]

Since I have payed for

video of fish in their habit without audio, I'll be willing to pay for an audio of

speaker's talk from the Convention...Fishtunes!

FRANNY

[bobrfish]

ACA BOT has been through

making AV copies of convention speakers. ACA legal counsel advised against selling or giving away

copies. If a copy comes your way, it is bootleg.

Erik is special. If you are not

aware, Erik is the guy doing AV for local clubs hosting an ACA convention.

Correct me

I err Erik but did not one speaker accost you post his and another person's presentation (that

used his material) and insist all copies be turned over to him immeadiately?

[Erik Olson]

<!--quoteo

(post=1921:date=Jul 31 2006, 08:43 PM:name=bobrfish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobrfish

@ Jul 31 2006, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Correct me I err Erik but did not one speaker

accost you post his and another person's presentation (that used his material) and insist all

copies be turned over to him immeadiately?</div>

No

speaker has ever accused me of foul play with their presentations -- perhaps you are thinking of

someone else? I am always very careful that the powerpoint given to me never leave my own archive,

and when the occasional club is interested in borrowing a DVD or VHS to show at a club meeting

(never the original powerpoint), I am always sure they contact the speaker and forward me the

reply. I have spent a lot of effort building up that trust.

This year, every speaker

checked the "Yes" box on the questionaire about whether I could tape their talks. Some

did not give me access to their powerpoint files (like Ad, who obviously makes his living off this;

or Uwe Romer, who noted that his university owns the copyright). Others not only freely gave, but

also were excited to see the edited talk. But all were all fine with me taping the screen and

getting the audio off the mixing board.

It got dicey in Dallas only because we explored

formalizing the sales of disks, and the ACA legal counsel made the speakers sign a scary release

form. Never again!

- Erik

[tjudy]

I am in favor of the ACA

producing a good quality set of talks that local fish clubs can use, like the slide shows the ACA

used to have available. I think the legal issue can be gotten around with contracted permission.

I would not have a problem giving permission for a local club to see my talks. I know that there

are many local clubs that are lucky if they can afford to bring in a speaker from out of town more

than once or twice a year.


Workshops... there are a multitude of topics for

workshops that woudl be good to see at a convention. Advertise the opportunity to run a workshop

and let the people who want to do them volunteer. Vendors would go for it for sure. John from

Jehmco was in Chicago with a lot of his higher-end product. He could probably run a 'how to

set up an automated fishroom' workshop better than anyone, and he would have all the

'toys' there to play with. The National Science Teachers Assoc. (NSTA) runs regional and

national conferences that are workshop driven. There are only a few large-hall

lectures/presentations, but the rest of the time is taken up by workshops that teachers put

together to take to the conferences to show other teachers.


Convention talks.... I

went to the NEC conference last April in CT. They ran three lecture rooms at the same time with

talks on significantly different topics. I noticed in Chicago that the number of people in the

talks was significantly lower than the show's attendance, which tells me that people are very

selective about the talks they go to. The ACA could do this... schedule a very scientific Lake

Malawi talk opposite a more hobbyist-centered SA talk and let people choose. Granted, there will

always be the few people who want to see every talk offered who may complain that they have to

choose. I system like that would push the talks into a shorter time period leaving more time for

other activities like side trips... or even some non-scheduled time for people to go to the sales

rooms (or be in their room to sell) without having to miss something.

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=1932:date=Aug 1 2006, 07:38 AM:name=tjudy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjudy @

Aug 1 2006, 07:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>...I am in favor of the ACA producing a good

quality set of talks that local fish clubs can use, like the slide shows the ACA used to have

available. I think the legal issue can be gotten around with contracted permission...

Workshops... Vendors would go for it for sure. John from Jehmco was in Chicago with a lot of

his higher-end product. He could probably run a 'how to set up an automated fishroom'

workshop better than anyone, and he would have all the 'toys' there to play with...

Convention talks.... I noticed in Chicago that the number of people in the talks was

significantly lower than the show's attendance, which tells me that people are very selective

about the talks they go to...</div>

Maybe the slide shows

should be converted to DVDs and made available for rent or sale.

When I was thinking

workshop I was thinking panel discussion. Show and tell might bring more people in. We'd need

to make it less like someone selling ginzu knives though.

The site of the convention

somewhat determines the turnout for talks. Cherry Hills had fewer people at the talks, they'd

gone to Atlantic City the night before or were there during the talks. The last time in St. Louis

we went to see Big Foot. I used to joke, only somewhat joking, that the next ICC should be held in

Vegas. Chuck Davis and others said no one would show for the talks or the banquet. Sometimes the

conversation in the lobby or hallways leads away from the talk OR is preferable to the talk. Not

everyone goes for the talks. Some just want to socialize with friends they can't see anywhere

else.

[Erik Olson]

Well, I've gotten the

replies back from most of the speakers, and it's pretty much a resounding NO on making even

audio available. Everyone has a different reason, but it amounts to the same thing: they just

don't want their material out there.

Sorry folks! Best bet is to try making it

to the next show!


<!--quoteo(post=1945:date=Aug 1 2006, 09:47

AM:name=fishmaven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishmaven @ Aug 1 2006, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=1945)</div><div class='quotemain'><!-

-quotec-->Maybe the slide shows should be converted to DVDs and made available for rent or sale.<!

--QuoteEnd--></div>

I am actually in posession of these shows, having

inherited them from Gene Aldridge a couple years ago. They're very dated.

As I

have a nice batch slide scanner, I was thinking it would be fun to turn them into DVDs, perhaps

with a series of guest narrators, but this is more of a historical footnote than of useful

information. These were came from an earlier era... a time when the slides have ACA Copyrights

burned in by an optical printer on third generation duplicates, scripts rendered on a crude

printing device...I think it was called a "type-writer". Much of the information is

similarly dated. Wayne Leibel says I'm nuts to even think about doing anything with those

slides.

- Erik

[bobrfish]

Sorry Erik, my memory is

failing. I thought it was Spencer that asked you for all copies of his and Jeff's

presentations after the talks were given in Fort Worth.

I actually enjoy the egg

head talks over hobby nuts and bolts talks. It is important that all attendees at

convention find something they enjoy. No one has to enjoy all of it or attend every talk, every

auction, every party. Well I guess they can die trying. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[Erik Olson]

<!--quoteo

(post=1957:date=Aug 1 2006, 05:28 PM:name=bobrfish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobrfish

@ Aug 1 2006, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry Erik, my memory is failing. I thought it

was Spencer that asked you for all copies of his and Jeff's presentations after the talks were

given in Fort Worth.</div>

You're perhaps confusing

my videotaping of the talks with borrowing the speakers' original Powerpoint slides? Sometimes

speakers allow me to use their slides directly to make a better video of their talk. I can

digitally drop 640x480 resized images on top of the videotape, which beats the heck out of shooting

the screen. And if I shoot the speaker, audience, etc instead of the screen, I can do professional

cuts between the speaker and the slide, audience, etc. I always make a promise to the speakers

that I *only* use the originals to enhance the video, and that they never are given to others.

This is because some people might choose to do unscrupulous things with the originals, like publish

it directly on the net, or extract the full-size photos.

ACA 2005, Spencer was one of

the guys who initially said I could use their slides for the video. But when presented with the

waiver from ACA's legal counsel, he completely freaked out; after the talk, and even with me

modifying the purpose of the video to be only for the local club, he waffled "I'm not

sure, let me think on it". Meanwhile, he made extra sure to delete his powerpoint files off

the TCA loaner laptop while still up on the podium finishing his talks. Something sure must have

spooked him. Maybe it was because he didn't know me. Maybe it was because it was his first

ACA. I think it was that *&!@ waiver. That whole evening was all very uncomfortable for

me, and it continued to cast a shadow the remainder of the weekend. And unfortunately for my

archive project, I had already shot his talk assuming he was loaning me the slides, i.e., camera on

him at the podium. So the final video is kinda lame. You mostly see his head. You can't see

what he's talking about. Thankfully, it was his "fluff" talk. By the time of

Spencer's "nuts & bolts" talk on frontosa the next day, I had gotten wise and

just shot from the back of the room. I don't think I even bothered to ask whether I could

borrow his slides.

But he did give permission to tape his talks and let the TCA have a

copy. There was no dispute over that.

I am so glad that this year we had it spelled out

in advance, and each speaker was very clear as to what they were comfortable with. I knew what to

expect, and I was able to shoot each talk the best possible way. GCCA will have a very good

archive for their library.

[Fogelhund]

I've been to two

ACA conventions, this one in Chicago, and one in Orlando in 1991. Hopefully I'll make another

one before 2021. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

What stood out

for me, was in 1991 there were breakout rooms, where you could choose the topic you wished to go

see. This might serve to give hobbyists who have interests in certain areas, the ability to see

more speakers. This may also serve to allow more advanced topics to be covered, simultaneously to

beginner topics. While I appreciate that the ACA has been for the advanced aquarist, perhaps

appealling to newer aquarists as well, may serve to grow membership some.

I've

enjoyed the talks on explorations trips, including Bleher's trip to River Fwa at the 1991

convention.

Brett Harrington

[fishmaven]

<!--quoteo

(post=1993:date=Aug 4 2006, 12:44 AM:name=Fogelhund)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fogelhund

@ Aug 4 2006, 12:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}

></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I've been to two ACA conventions, this one in

Chicago, and one in Orlando in 1991. Hopefully I'll make another one before 2021. http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

What stood out for me, was in

1991 there were breakout rooms, where you could choose the topic you wished to go see. This might

serve to give hobbyists who have interests in certain areas, the ability to see more speakers.

This may also serve to allow more advanced topics to be covered, simultaneously to beginner topics.

While I appreciate that the ACA has been for the advanced aquarist, perhaps appealling to newer

aquarists as well, may serve to grow membership some.

I've enjoyed the talks on

explorations trips, including Bleher's trip to River Fwa at the 1991 convention.

Brett Harrington</div>
Brett, you're lumping two very

different conventions together. The ICC that you went to in Orlando was a combined event, not just

a cichlid group. Combined events are more difficult to plan, coordinate, schedule, and hold. Too

many chiefs, rarely enough talented indians. Because of the difficulties they're only held

periodically. The figure 5 years sticks in my head. Conventions tend to be money makers for the

host club as well as the ACA. The ACA requires a return on whatever expenses are invested. The

larger the convention the greater the risk. The ICC I event was more of a celebration of cichlid

keeping as well as rainbows and other things. Several clubs sponsored parties and the NJ group

actually held a tour. Thousands of dollars were literally p****d away in beer alone. I don't

think we'll see the like again.

I agree, the ACA doesn't completely align with

what I'd like it to encompass. It's hard getting a volunteer group with varying abilities,

goals, backgrounds and locations to achieve anything. Over the years, many hobbyists have set their

egos aside to deal with others they wouldn't normally choose as dinner companions just to get

this organization to where it is today. I've stated publicly here that I didn't like all

the decisions. BUT decisions made were usually the best that could be done at that point. Short of

having a meeting of the board separate from the convention, I can't see that much could be

changed. We're talking volunteers spending several days away from work and families and the

funds to do so just to hash out something they're not even certain the club would embrace.

Having a club appealing to experts and advanced hobbyists as well as beginners is a hard concept to

grasp. It's easy to say. Saying how we'd like things to be real easy. It's difficult

to see the steps or direction for implementation of the goal.

If Heiko is a justifiable

reason for you to attend a convention you might look into FOTAS in Houston in October. Don't

judge a Texas fish club convention compared to a convention of the ACA. Texas clubs combined have

no where near the 1200 members of the ACA. BTW, in 1991 the numbers were closer to 2500 members.

The FOTAS Convention is on our calendar here on the site. It would give you a chance to visit with

Heiko and a small group of Texans. Dan

[Fogelhund]

Yes, indeed Orlando

was an ICC event, yet I don't recall there being anything besides Cichlid speakers at that one,

but heck it was 15 years ago.

Texas is a bit of a hike for me, though I may attend the

OCA Extravaganza.

It isn't that I think Heiko is a superior speaker (though he is

enjoyable), I was just using that as an example of one of the kind of talks I would like to here

about, and have enjoyed in the past. There are many others who have done exploration trips to many

places, that could equally document and presented.

Another interesting article I read

recently was Mark Smith's Bathybates article in the TFH. Now that is a fish that you

don't see in the hobby too often, and an expanded and presented version of that would be very

interesting.

[Tim]

For those who like the

collecting talks, etc, I'm going to do a talk on my trip to Lake Tanganyika for our local club,

in an attempt to drum up membership. Everyone's invited, although it'll be more, "This

is a pretty black fish with a bluish tail." Rather than, "This is the Ophthalmotilapia

boops "neon streak" from Nkondwe, almost extinct in the wild." http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif
Tim